&#9;TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION

&#9;UWC HEARING - DAY 2 - TUESDAY 6 AUGUST 1996



CASE NO:&#9;&#9;&#9;&#9;CT/00414

VICTIM:&#9;&#9;&#9;&#9;ROGER NEIL CHARLES

NATURE OF VIOLENCE:&#9;&#9;SHOT BY POLICE

TESTIMONY FROM:&#9;&#9;ROGER NEIL CHARLES



ROGER NEIL CHARLES&#9;&#9;&#9;Duly sworn states

COMMISSIONER: Dr Orr will assist you with your evidence, and I hand over to her.

DR ORR: Hello Mr Charles, thank you for being here this afternoon I know it hasn't been easy for you in terms of work commitments and so on, thank you for taking the time to be with us.You going to tell us about an incident which happened in October 1985 which was a time of turbulence throughout South Africa and certainly the Western Cape wasn't spared.Can you go ahead and tell us a little bit about yourself initially.How old are you, where do you live, are you married. --- Yes I am married now I live in Blue Downs and I work, I have three children.And I am 31 years old, and that's basically it.

&#9;Thank you, I see it's not only women who are embarrassed about revealing their age.Can you go ahead and tell us what happened that evening on the 25th of October 1985. --- I was at work, we were working late, at the time I was a salesman in Parow and we were working late because it was a customers evening and after the customers evening I took my last customer home and was on my home.I was married at the time as well and I was 20 at the time, I got home just after eight.And I was involved in protest actions at the time, but I was on my way back from work.I was in my car it was past eight, as I said I was still at work at eight o'clock.I parked my car and saw in the road where I lived I saw friends of mine who were at school with me previously they were busy with activities in the street, burning tires and so forth.I pulled up near them and scared them a bit and then after that I proceeded home.When I got home my wife - my ex-wife wasn't at home and of course I was worried because she was at church which was just across the road from us, but she and my child had to pass the barricades.I just put down my keys and went up to fetch my ex-wife, but I had to pass my friends once again.I mean I knew them, I had greeted them and everything, they then ran away, I thought they were playing a trick on me but when I looked up again I looked straight into - straight down the barrel of a gun.I turned around and ran and I felt something and I knew I was shot.I still tried to carry on running but I fell because I was afraid that they would shoot me again.I laid there and after a while the ambulance arrived and the ambulance men bundled me very roughly into the ambulance and I can still remember that these two white officers - there are two stretchers in the ambulance which are fairly soft, and they put me on the floor of the ambulance and they sat on these soft stretchers.And we got to the hospital and I lost consciousness and came to a while later to find myself under police guard.After a while in the hospital I was discharged and was taken straight to prison.I appeared in Court as well and because I don't know much about prison and things like that I didn't know about it then and I still don't know much about it now, but anyway, I appeared in Court and the trial proceeded for more than a year but I was released on bail.At the end of the day - after approximately a year in about 1986 I was found guilty, I was convicted and sentenced to one year prison sentence which I didn't serve.But anyway I was placed in jail with hardened criminals, and people who - of course knew why they were there.And to me it was extremely traumatic because I had never even seen the inside of a police cell, and I had to adapt for a year living with these hardened criminals.But fortunately through God's grace I survived, I got through it and after precisely a year in 1986 I was sentenced on the 9th of December 1986 and on the 8th of December the following year I was released.My daughter at that stage was two years old, and unfortunately she still suffers - post traumatically because of what I had experienced because my wife and I were estranged during my incineration, and my daughter still suffers the post trauma of my shooting and the effects of a split family.The person that shot me was a Sergeant Esterhuizen and shortly after the shooting he became a Sergeant, he wasn't a Sergeant at the time of the incident.And I think the other one was Geduld although I am not 100% certain.

&#9;Thank you Mr Charles, I just want to ask you a few questions about the incident.You yourself were not participating in what was going on in the street, you were just walking past to say hello to your friends. --- I didn't specifically go and greet my friends, I was walking past there to go and fetch my wife and my child.

&#9;And in fact we have a statement from a Mr Andre Kenneth Jeftha who was there that night, who confirms what you say that in fact you were not participating in riots or unrest of any kind.Before you were shot, did the police give youany warning? --- No there was no warning, or anything, I just saw here this - I saw myself looking down the barrel of a gun and that was that.

&#9;And they shot you as you were running away. --- Ja agter my rug.

&#9;In what part of your body were you injured? --- There were approximately 23 pellets in my back and the scars are still there and I know that there are still some pellets in my body that weren't removed.

&#9;And were you charged with public violence is that what you were sentenced for. --- Yes I was charged with public violence.

&#9;Thank you I have no further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, any further questions?Thank you very much I mean that you've taken the trouble to come and I keep saying much the same sort of things as I respond to what I hear.Sort of the randomness of some of the things that happened and people just being able to abuse power and then having a judicial system that often was not was it should be, a bastion against the erosion of liberty and freedom and rights.I mean being anything but and then I mean you apart from all the physical suffering and the emotional trauma that you've experienced what's happened in your family, your child we keep always being amazed at people being so human.I mean having gone through that experience you'd expect that someone will be feeling very embittered, angry and hate filled but the impression you give is of someone who is not so and we give thanks to God for you and thank you for being who you are and for helping in your way to contribute to making South Africa what it is today and we can - we can have a Truth and Reconciliation Commission where you can tell your story and can say well maybe we want to know why they did it, who said they should do it and we hope that as a Commission we may be able to supply those stories.But we want to say more importantly than anything that you are helping to contribute to the healing of this nation, a traumatized nation as you have contributed to it's liberation, thank you.



























